TL 6.4 update discussion

I didn't really expect much of a reply even though I made a number of suggestions to try and help and that just kind of confirmed it...

Playing with different players isn't an option, the community is small enough as it is and I play with all of them...the issue isn't the players, it's the game. The players are just playing to try and not lose the games and because of the changes and the way it is now the only real way to do this most of the time is to sit and all defend the base.

I enjoy rumble occasionally, but it's a completely different game and not one I want to play all the time, so again, it's not really an answer.

I don't think there are any map editors left playing...

I will try suggesting swap books or constant skills and see how they play.

TL;DR.





















jk, you should know im better than that.
anyway i support jaha, 6.3 is really the latest stable version, but i cant really contribute to this discussion since i have no good ideas at the moment..

I know it was long but I thought it was important to say and I think a number of people share the same opinion and if they don't then we can have a discussion about it. It's all about improving it and making it better and more balanced.

Maybe you should go back to 6.3 and make a few changes from there but keep that as the base?

i don't think 6.3 was more balanced or w/e, it was just 'stable' for too long so players got used to it (same goes for 1.1 rumble on east)

i also have copy of editable 6.3 (but i will not edit that)

make complete list of skills (other things) with values you want to change..

Since you don't want to decrease fountain regen.
Maybe boost the base dmg of mobs by 4-5 dmg?

Well my suggestions so far...

Restore creeping back to the way it was, add mana burn to the satyrs.

Aegis is too cheap at 1500, but a bit pricey at its old price of 1800. Maybe 1650 or something?

Replace Twister with Tornado.

Remove ranged strength heroes...there was a reason these haven't been part of DOTA before (bar tank) because they can be abused and it's easy for lesser players to hide behind them. Int/Mana is very cheap and it's extremely easy to get a ranged strength hero and buy an EB.

Fix orb back to the strength it used to be around 6.3/4. It's too strong considering its abilities as a slow/dispel/nuke.

I haven't really looked at the stats of him, but does vamp need nerfed a little considering he is picked practically every single game?

You need to look at the hero balance very carefully...the main reason 3.7 was so balanced was because every hero had an opposing hero on the other side. Some heroes are pretty unique (hippo for instance) and I know we have waygates but if there isn't an opposite equivalent it leaves an imbalance.

Spiderman seems ridiculously hard to use and quite often doesn't cast properly...I wasn't sure if it was just me but i've seen other decent players struggle with it...

Searing needs changing, probably damage reducing as 3 mana cost for +45 damage is crazy and i've abused this a number of times.

Tombstone is a good idea but spawns far too many summons at level 2 and 3.

Reincarnation...not sure why you made it instant vs how it was but I think it was better the previous way (even if it did give enemy time to organise and block etc)

Maybe try putting regen at fountain a bit lower and see how it affects the game.

These are all my opinions so i'd like to see if others agree with me or have any other suggestions.

//Edit: Thiefs bag is a nice idea and I like the concept, but it just encourages games to be drawn out in having 4 defend while the creeper finishes filling and then gets a huge amount of gold. It's not hard to fill the bag if you have nice bot c skills or you're a skilled laner. People also abuse it through denying units just for the hell of it to add more coins to the bag. Perhaps increase the cost of it (250?) and make it 50 or 75 coins gives an extra 500 gold when sold?

how about anticamp version 2:
works 15 minute after game starts.
if every 6 minutes 40% or 60% of team isn't over the river for 20 secs that team gets no gold untill they do?
kinda stupid but im trying to think of something good because im sick of camping games -.-

: )

i make few points

- didn't try twister yet
- didn't see single player (except myself) to use searing effectively
- tombstone spawns same amout at all levels, zombies just gets stronger
- i like spiderman as it is
- reincarnation is good as it is now . .
- creeps gets stonger/give less gold when you kill rax (since 1.0)
- anticamp v2 - good idea but hardly realizable
- maybe try to play without second towers to speed up game . .
- game with random skills will never be balanced
- think about removal of dragons call/beset/rest of siege skills
- i agree with/don't care about rest

some tips for players i played with today:

- buy hib when you play intelligence hero
- don't buy items when i call 5 man
- don't suicide solo siege

Twister is ok but I think getting rid of Tornado was a mistake.

Well i've abused searing a number of times and any player who has played a decent bf in old versions can use it easily. It's very efficient at last hitting and 45 damage for 3 mana cost is crazy...consider the price of a demon edge to give +36 damage each hit and then compare to this giving an additional 9 damage each hit for just 3 mana...

Ah yeah, ignore my comment regarding tombstone spawns, I forgot it spawns the number of enemies around it. I think it's pretty overpowered on siege though.

I like Spoon's idea regarding punishing teams for camping, although that idea doesn't sound too feasible so maybe we could come up with something else.

Yeah I understand games with random skills will never be balanced but there ways of improving the balance (ensuring balanced heroes, nerfing skills that are clearly overpowered, methods of balancing skill assignment (this is done to some degree through assigning skills to different sets like Puri/Holy both to first set)

I don't want to suggest something like removing beset/dragon but they get picked virtually every game and it promotes pool/camp scenario.

I don't know who your last 3 points are directed to or if they're just general advice to people but I think the last two are fairly common sense...and the first is dependent on skills and situation but hibs are always useful.

i make update in a week (maybe)

the word "feasible" solely made me lost 12 points on a test today, thanks for bringing back that awful memory.


also, what are you talking about stronger creeps? never noticed anything... i have zero map awareness.

Also Dragon needs fixed...cheese abuse and encyclopedia can be used with an Aegis...

Speaking of Aegis, it has to be nerfed a bit. Maybe longer cd on mana?
Not even worth getting Magus or Pulsar.