TL 6.4 update discussion

hello, here are some ideas to start with

[13:49:32] <From Maiden-> make troll bit weaker
[13:49:35] <From Maiden-> same stats as ms
[13:50:17] <From PiG.Tyranny> remove that sheep cancels beset. just make it making like 400 damage on illusion . make mines undestructibles by spells like kw penta its boring
[13:50:34] <From PiG.Tyranny> makes mines unmovables by mag and knockwave its boring too
[13:50:51] <From PiG.Tyranny> add cd of spells on description
[13:51:08] <To PiG.Tyranny>
[13:51:10] <From PiG.Tyranny> get back engulf tidal rounds
[13:52:17] <From PiG.Tyranny> remove the poison thing of corrosive breath or fix it. it might do more than 200 dmage more than the normal dammage. (180+200)
[13:54:18] <From PiG.Tyranny> will u change all i said pls ? i think its important. the most important thing is to keep the selection mode because i still got a bug on optionnable and last pick selection mode, tnx

1/longen flame arrows cd it's too short.
2/can u remove the mana burn skill from satyrs for easier creeping ?
3/remove ams skill..rly unfair
4/can u insert another ranged str hero in addition to tank hero?mostly for using a ranged hero with double edge
5/can u put a lion's ring in each shops of sent and ud cause 1 for all is not enough, it's long cd and we have to go mid shop to buy it
6/shorten bottle cd
7/can u make nether ward vulnerable to a few skill like se or penta?
8/make death sentry see invis

I think it's a good start ^^..thx to u

make mines cd slower...
astroid(ithink its that skill name) can be too strong if it hits u several times..
lighting orb can be stoo strong also...
the skill that dmg to units that hit u phisical(melee) is shit...remove it or add dmg to it

forgtet i just usd teak pikes and its good skill tho...didnt saw it to to all nerby enemys...
and the cd on lion ring dont increas it just make every1 have it...keep it the same same as bottle

1. a bug i saw with dispell sheep-
it is possible to kill someone while being a sheep. if you do, you dont get level up for that
(i frog jumped and killed 2 players, in mid-air i was turned into a sheep and didnt leveled up or got exp)

2. i think asteroid should stay the way it is. yes, it causes about 360 damage. but by now you should have realised you dont run in the same direction of it. maybe nerf it's damage to 60/100/160 but lower mana cost.

3. as everyone has been sayin, troll needs to be nerfed. i agree with that and support it. but besides that there is a lack of "good" agi heroes on sent side. bandit is the only one so far (and troll soon) but ud has easier time to get the good agi heroes- ms, knight and kob/naix.
maybe change kobold to something else and put him in sent, that should balance things up.

4. after decoy/beset- make camera focus on the real hero. should really help.

5. try to fix bug that sometimes ice path dont work on flying heroes. havent seen it that much so its not that necessary, but take a look into it.

6. mines not working on flying heroes aswell, whats up with that? dont make it that way.
also i dont know who noticed it because i did but kept it a secret - mines damage depends on armor. u can kill amped mid creeper with 1-2 mines. make them always do the same damage (150-300, w/e) and not be depended on armor.

7. omnislash is a nice skill, but its annoying:
stunning hero while casting omni dont really helps, since skills casting takes about 3-4 seconds.
u can also grab/mag/hook that hero and he comes back to where he started omnislash from. imo he needs to go to where he was grabbed/magged etc..
maybe make hero inv when casting omni but lower damage, because its a good spam-able skill but it can turn it horrible for caster if he gets nukes. its as if he is also stunning himself.


if ill think about more ill let u know

addition to #4-
not just focus on real hero, but select him.

also - cleric attack animation is slow and annoying to last hit.
just sayin'

There are some ideas for next update.

First I'd like to thank you Tzieph for making that TS will be name Tyranny in 50% chances. My lovely hero

1. Corrosive Breath has to be fixed. I dunno if it has but I noticed two things : that u can be damage by the poison thing without being hit by the 180 normal spell damage, and that poison can make more than 200 damage at level 3. And maybe rename it to Dragon's Maw, like always was called.

2. Get back the 4 skills u removed, like twist and chop. The more skills we have, the more fun we get. If I still hate to use twist for the few damage, I love chop because its normal single nuke with not high neither low damage. Maybe make add chop another use, like chop a tree for 75/100/125 heal and for the mana cost of the nuke 75.

3. Get back old dh skills u didnt add, like rounds nightmare flesh, tidal, engulf, death pact cannibalize, iron maiden, fire elementals. Especially rounds and death pact. Rounds is the only aoe with few mana cost/fast cd, make it third category skill. Nightmare Flesh is my old favorite scourge ulti because it has fast cd, so let it have a try. Death pact is annoying because u can deny with it without being hit but its the best auto heal because it can heal more than 400hp. Make it working on summons, except nigthmare flesh, dragon or wendigos. For iron maiden, I like not only the band but the skill, its good for creeping. Maybe increase the damage : 15/20/25 damage returned to melee attackers.

4. Make haunt works on summons.

5. Make Poison field back to 6%/8%/10% without affecting allies. For me its still a bad skill because its too slow on contrary of instant aoe or pentagram which is faster.

6. Make mines exploding on contact of a ennemy unit only in required numbers, ie. dont let 4 mines or more exploding for an unique abyss goule, but two mines (300 + 300 = 600 damage).

7. Increase Touch Of Death damage and mana cost. For me its like the shittest skill of your game after kamikaze.

8. Increase kamikaze damage to a really high level, like 300/400/500 damage in aoe of 700, so I would skill it. It would be more tactical to use it, like a hero can go suicide with it and then let his allies to use flood/mag/meteo to finish a 5 men monster kill.

9. Maybe get the new skills of dota dh 3.5. Some are good, like a skill decreasing on a single target unit the speed, the attack speed and damage, and another making three golem rocks for 125 mana cost.

10. Fix paralyzing powder. For me it's the worst shit skill of the game after TOD and Kamikaze. Increase damage and number of stuns in aoe, and make it do like 300/400/500 damage to a single target ennemy summon or illusion, without doing aoe stuns and other damage. It would be more like old paralyshock which was good skill.

11. Increase the damage given by Lightning orb. For 120 mana at level 3, I sometimes only do around 125 damage in aoe to units, same like level 1 carrion. For me, it's the worst aoe skill, so fix it please.

12. Make 50% chance to all heroes that they could be named same like a famous TL player. MS would be Maiden-, sniper Harlot-, pyrotechnist Onstyx, priest NsPa etc.

13. Remove all cd of items. So if u have 5800 gold u can have two bucklers in same time. If u dont do this please decrease at least the cd of the big items so we can buy in a game more than one valor, more than one fang, more than one buckler etc.

14. Get back that bottle restores 135/65, for me its the most usefull item, more than a buckler, since buckler adds only 275 hp and 90 mana while bottle gives like more than 300 hp and 150 mana for 600 gold.

15. Make that we have 100 bonus gold at start when map creator aka u Tzieph plays in, so I can buy bottle at start

16. Get back that the buckler gives hp instead of stats. On a TS the +5 agi and +5 mana is useless, since TS isn't a fighter ang get enough mana. Make it have like 400 hp + 6 str + 4 armor. Fix also the stats of Viking helm. For the moment its +12 str + 5 armor, so 575x2 + 500 gold. And it costs 2500 not 1650 gold. So make it decrease price or make it adding +18 str.

That's all for today I think.

1. "And maybe rename it to Dragon's Maw, like always was called."
YESSSSSS!!

2. "Maybe make add chop another use, like chop a tree for 75/100/125 heal and for the mana cost of the nuke 75"
this is nice idea. really.
but twist was too buggy should keep it out.

3. "Get back old dh skills u didnt add, ..."

nightmare flesh is nice. tidal is just aimed cross fire. iron maiden is not that good in tl, since the game is dh with steroids. you should bring back engulf but maybe make it has 2/4/6% to turn a unit that was targeted by the splash to a fire elemental.

4. Make haunt works on summons.
YES. ty.


6. "Make mines exploding on contact of a ennemy unit only in required numbers, ie. dont let 4 mines or more exploding for an unique abyss goule, but two mines (300 + 300 = 600 damage)."

NO. DONT EVER DO SUCH A DUMB THING. just stupid. i dont think i even need to explain why.

7. "Increase Touch Of Death damage and mana cost"
maybe. i think its ok at first but its really bad closer to mid-game and end-game.

8. "Increase kamikaze damage to a really high level, like 300/400/500 damage in aoe of 700"
can be nice. but maybe damage will be 150/250/350 and will have negative -5 armor to all enemy units in explosion range for 20 seconds.

10." Fix paralyzing powder".
this skill is awesome maybe you dont know how to use it. it should remain the same, but maybe add 75 bonus damage to each jump ON SUMMONS. without paralyshock effect on heroes. thats too imba.

11. "Increase the damage given by Lightning orb. For 120 mana at level 3, I sometimes only do around 125 damage in aoe to units, same like level 1 carrion. For me, it's the worst aoe skill, so fix it please."
well lightning orb is only strong for 1v1 uses, but besides that level 1 carrion cant dispell GA from 20 units now can it? it has its ups and downs. can lower mana to 100. keep damage same.

12. "Make 50% chance to all heroes that they could be named same like a famous TL player. MS would be Maiden-, sniper Harlot-, pyrotechnist Onstyx, priest NsPa etc."
this is really nice. giving names to heroes after players that use them alot.
fn- jaha, pyro - evil bastard, bandit - 6pamok etc.. (nospoon - warlock )
can even do it for items descriptions, think of something funny to write.

13. "Remove all cd of items. So if u have 5800 gold u can have two bucklers in same time. If u dont do this please decrease at least the cd of the big items so we can buy in a game more than one valor, more than one fang, more than one buckler etc."
i think its ok. think about mass pooled players that decoy siege. it would be annoying like this.
maybe little less cd, but not by alot.


14. "Get back that bottle restores 135/65" uhhm. yes. idc much but it was nice the way it was.

15. "Make that we have 100 bonus gold at start when map creator aka u Tzieph plays in, so I can buy bottle at start" no. no need to be greedy. maybe add negative 1 gold when im in the game, so players need to wait a sec before shopping greedy bastards. always stealing my mantles and branches.

16. "Get back that the buckler gives hp instead of stats. On a TS the +5 agi and +5 mana is useless, since TS isn't a fighter ang get enough mana. Make it have like 400 hp + 6 str + 4 armor"
no, its ok. maybe add for buck 100-150 hp but keep it this way.

" Fix also the stats of Viking helm. For the moment its +12 str + 5 armor, so 575x2 + 500 gold. And it costs 2500 not 1650 gold. So make it decrease price or make it adding +18 str."
WTF. are you serious? its more expensive because it is ONE SLOT. you cant comapre it to the price of 2x6 str and 1x5 armor. lol.
if you want to make it worth more add 2hp reg or something

Tnx nospoon for answering and critisize my post but I still think all my ideas are good. I hope Tzieph will do same.
I forgot some things.

17. Make dispelling sheeperd doing damage on illusion for a high amount, so its still imba versus decoy/beset. Maybe 200 damage on summons and 300/400 on illusions.

18. Increase the gold reward of spiders level 3 and 5. Spiders level 3 are far more the stronger creeps of this level and still give the same gold than the weakest little trolls. Make it like 55 gold at level 3 and 80 gold at level 5 instead of 60-65.

19. Maybe make ams an ulti (with same little cd) because this single skill can turn a game into a loose or a win alone.

20. Fix the knock ability of knockwave, sometimes units at the end of the wave aren't knocked while still being hit, or/and units in the wave are more very little and not in the way of the knockwave was sent but on the left or right.

21. Get back the skills shadowmeld (as ulti) and armor aura (with maybe 4/6/8 ar).

22. Fix the new skills. I think in a general way they dont do enough damage, especially rage strike, which is like bull rush without aoe. Why not make it a very strong nuke with like 200/275/350 damage ?! For a first skill ability u need at least this.

I surely forgot some others things, but that's all for today.

hello,

1) ok

2) chop cannot be aimed on tree, but i could make some chance for tree surround when nuked by it

3) nightmare flesh is just another summon (fernal, rock golem, skeletons etc) so no, i like the engulf idea (possible to make)

4) not possible (without additional triggers)

6) not possible anyway

7) can be buffed sure

been increased to 150/300/450 go test , i like the after amplify damage idea!

10) summon shock possible

11) i slightly increased attack range of the orb, mana can be lowered

12) sure make full list

13) its ok like it is now

14) i think its better like now

15) nerd

16) no

17) ok

18) ok

19) possible also as aoe

20) not my trigger

21) shadowmeld been added

22) rage strike has realy fast cd now i think, something like lucent

how about x-mas mode (random items dropping randomly on map)

possible update next week ..

x-mas mode can be funny
also need to add changes post for 6.5..

I really hope that u guys dont listen to that Tyranny since most of his comments are just stupid.
Its more that if he want to change something is a kind of confirmation that its good allrdy.

- Fix damage of hook
- Fix hp healed by puri
- Get maw back as it was (185 damage, no poison)
- Get old skills back like para etc
- Remove the random-hero option & the 'supers only' option
- Fix the range of mortar
- Make doc slower or give him less int
- Make the hide option slower as it was in DH
- Make boa's, sow's and axe's as they were (just 9 damage, 3 str/agi/int)

Better get just the skills, items & heroes of DH with the maplayout of TL, then it should be way more balanced

1. Fix Rage Strike, had some bug some days ago when i flew out of map when i did it on a hero and was just keep on flying like i had no target and couldn't do anything and was forced to leave.

2. Very expensive items like Viking Helm should give sligtly more stats Maybe
(+15 str and 5-7 arm) otherwise it seems to not be worth it. (Even if it only takes 1 slot).

3. Raise snowball damage abit or make them fly closer to eachhother so they can hit one target if u stand close to them. Otherwise i just do it and it hits 100-200 and slows sligtly.

4. Lower the cooldown and price of dogs. Because now when Shadowmeld is here its a pretty imba skill and if would be needed to mby lower price to 300g and make cooldown less.

5. Also its very hard to lane the new Drain life. It only take 1 Drain to heal like 200 hp in lvl 1 so its very hard and lame to lane it. Should be healing much less.

6. 2 topics about sents invis heroes. 1, Moon rider, Luna and Forest Nymph are too simular too eachother at lower levels. It would be fun if it was a slightly bigger difference in their skills. Like this:
Fn at level 2: 15 str 20 agi 25 int.
Rider at level 2: 22 str 18 agi 20 int.
Luna at level 2: 17 str 23 agi 20 int.

Also just because a hero have intelligence as its base stat, for example, it shouldn't mean that intelligence is it's highest stat all times.

And 2. Scourge should get some invis-ranged too. Otherwise in beginning all sents runs to Fn very fast and scourge dosn't have a chance to get it. Therefore they could maybe trade Soulrender or some other hero for a invis-ranged.

- Make the sleep of sleepwalking a few sec shorter
- Make Giant Growth some minutes shorter, it's now like permantly inmune

Also fix xmas mode so ppl finally play it. RIght now its like:
40% chance to drop Demons edge
30% chance to drop Lothar's claymore
25% chance for random heal stuff.
5% chance for other items

Bring back mana burn on satyrs ffs! creepers already having it easy just right clicking units 15 minutes long, atleast make mobs like spitting spiders and satyrs with mana burn annoy them!

Also consider taking down the teleporters to the creep areas once bridges come in, would stop random twats with ams/gg/intens/fero running into ur base every 2 minutes.

Last but not least is to show assists besides kills, this will be a great option against all these gloryhunters claiming they did most damage (damn killstealers)

ThaMafia, go play renew/other dotas if u wanna change the TL map, Tzieph has made a imba job making all those teleports and everything. And if u change of that TL will not be TL anymore.
Thats the fun of TL, its diff from other dota maps and more fun.

i think you shouldnt remove the teleports later in game, but just edit the skills which are imba with this warp

New imba skill. Needs to be fixed.
Shadowstep is overimba. I had naix with it it dmges 342 auto if u got 380 ms. And also puts u on the enemie. You need to fix so it dmges around 250-270 otherwise overpowered.

silly highelf, you are saying i should go play another game because i make a suggestion that i believe would make this game better? react constructive or gtfo thx....the point of the forum is to make suggestions to improve this game, if u dont like this gtfo again thx

my point was that with these warps halfway the maps u get to the enemy base to quick, thus promoting camp/counter what we see often. editing skills in this way would be harder than simply moving sent tp spot further south

Those teleports is making it able to sneak abit atleast. Otherwise sent just camps and mines the usual spots.

EDIT: You can also sneak by destroying trees so u make secret ways so they cant see u.

HiGhElF- wrote:Those teleports is making it able to sneak abit atleast. Otherwise sent just camps and mines the usual spots..

Since when mines are so good? Mines are only good in noobgames, 1 dog makes ur mining total useless.

HiGhElF- wrote:EDIT: You can also sneak by destroying trees so u make secret ways so they cant see u.

I don't really get this remark. What secret way are u talking about, that is faster then the usual routes? Destroying trees usually takes also some time, plus mana or items. But i'll watch u closely when im in ur team next time, revealing all the secrets of the forest.


But i agree with Vites (ofc cause he's very smart etc) that GG could be made a little shorter + that intens/strafe doesnt work while GG'd.
I also agree with someone that said that Shadowsteps damage should be reduced a bit, its allrdy nice that ur moving towards ur enemy, no need for such imba damage.
Further i want to report some weird stuff caused by Overgrowth, my ms was looking like it did was flying like 3m above the ground, and a rider had his nametag like 20ft above him and was sometimes standard as big as he was at the end of Overgrowth.

Onderhand wrote:
Further i want to report some weird stuff caused by Overgrowth, my ms was looking like it did was flying like 3m above the ground, and a rider had his nametag like 20ft above him and was sometimes standard as big as he was at the end of Overgrowth.

Yes indeed, the size changes sometimes/most of the time. Sometimes you get even smaller then kobold, sometimes even bigger then toto with GG.