TL 6.4 update discussion

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Szotyi on Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:40 pm

Hi,

-Life drain should not work vs. GG/ams

-(solo) Draft with random heroes does not seemed to work correctly.

-If it is possible, maybe there should be 10 sec countdown per pick in draft mode, it might make it a bit more popular if we do not have to wait half minutes for some very slow brained person (like allsmell Very Happy )

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Onderhand on Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:37 pm

That new anti-moron mode is really good, it doesnt effect the game at all but it makes good games.
I would suggest also a KingTzieph mode or smtn, then tzieph has meld and invincibility whole game. Good idea? Question

*And i also want to say that i like Tzieph very much and he makes great maps...*

i made this for u guys so u can copy paste it in ur reactions, since if u arent nice to him u become listed.

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  HiGhElF- on Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:02 pm

Onderhand wrote:That new anti-moron mode is really good, it doesnt effect the game at all but it makes good games.
I would suggest also a KingTzieph mode or smtn, then tzieph has meld and invincibility whole game. Good idea? Question

*And i also want to say that i like Tzieph very much and he makes great maps...*

i made this for u guys so u can copy paste it in ur reactions, since if u arent nice to him u become listed.



Man thats "King Tzieph" mode suck hard *peep*... We dont want a guys advantage to be bigger the all our.
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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Vites4ever on Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:10 pm

I think you should start over with 6.3. Latest versions are pretty unbalanced...

Fix:
- Supermanpunch. It's just gay
- Elune's arrow stuns for 7 seconds? Maybe make it 20, more fun
- Jew robbery
- Abbys ghouls. Ghouls are allready good in begin, so why you add bonusses? You can get a whole lane now in begin easily
- Sweepingray, it deals like 700-800 damage when you cast it close to someone. Doesnt make the game more fun

Adding more abilities or giving extra skills to abilities doesnt make the game more fun. Neither makes it more balanced. Maybe get back to a earlier TL (like 6.3 or earlier) when the game was way more balanced...
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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  lazy_boy on Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:53 am

i agree with vites(with what he said in the end) brining in more skills and abilities doesnt make the game better....stay with what u have now..just balance it more...and add new stuff every once and a while(month or 2 months) but stick with what u have now its great! just balance more..with what ppl say here...


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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  HiGhElF- on Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:16 pm

From my opinion its just fun with new skills. Just the only problem is that we have to make like 5 d1ff dotas to balance it. It we added sweeping ray at 6.5 then we needed another verion to changes it because it was to imba 6.6 . Then we ralized it sucks because ppl can avoid it there we got 6.7. And now a change that it dmges same at the way out and lower at way in 6.8. Thats only bacasue of a few skills. Would be funnier if u like started working on new skills and then in like 1-2 mounths u made a dota 7.0 with new skills that no1 known about. That instead of making 4923789437294 versions.
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Some new ideas

Post  Tyranny on Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:47 pm

Hi Tzieph.

Here are some new ideas for next update.

1. First, please let the Tormented Soul back in game. It was best hero for mana, it can help a lot when u got 4 nukes. Remove one hero that is never taken like veno or void. Please make that 50% chance TS will be named Tyranny Very Happy it didnt work in last version, if u dont do it pls make that Shadow Priest will have 50% chance to be named Tyranny then, because I always take this hero, even more than TS Very Happy Tnx a lot if u do it. Give every hero 50% chance to be name like the player that use it the most, like Spider named Majestro-T, sniper named harlot-, chaos warlock named mistigris etc, would be fun.

2. Make that the mana burn on felhounds needs only one press on button to burn ennemy hero.Atm u need to press it 4 times to burn it all, if possible make that all felhounds burns from first press.

3. Mana burn works on spiders 3 and maybe level 5 too when they doesnt have mana. Just fix it.

4. Give back rounds. I ask again for this skills since it was one of my favorite. 50 mana for 125 damage in 300 aoe, we dont have such a aoe/low mana skill yet.

5.Make that bottle can be used while being sheeped. I once died because I couldnt use bottle while sheep, its not a spell so we should be able to use it. make bottle also works when we are using Sweeping Ray or Flamethrower.

6. Add cd of spells on each description. It can helps a lot.

7. Make a totaly new scorboard. Atm spells like hydrant or sweeping give hundreds of thousands points its not logical. Make points given based on damage given, like 1 point per damage given during game. 10 pts per damage given towards heroes. 50 pts per creep kill, 1000 pts per hero frag. 2000 pts per raze. 1 pts per gold earned. etc. It would be much more balanced to see ppl's points at end.

8. Dont let trees regrowth after a short time, sometimes its one second after razing them. And we get stucked. Fix it.

9. Get back homing missile : 700 (or 500) damage universal on single target + 300 damage in 300 aoe. its imba.

10. Giant Growth is very imba it can win a game alone, maybe make it ultimate.

11. Get back refresh skill, its imba I loved it.

12. Edict mana cost of 100 was ok, and now since it works vs buildings it should be back at 100.

13. Show image/icon on shadowmeld ulti (4th skill doesnt get any image atm when u have it).

14. Remove that writing "-t" makes a big t, many stupid nerds use it at start and we dont read books.

15. Lumberaxejack should allow to destroy the trees we make for 0 mana cost, one tree per tree with a cd, because sometimes we make so many trees that we block a full lane and nobody can pass. It sucks. Fix it.

16. I noticed one bug. When u select a shop while u are still waiting that ur hero get possessed by soul, the screen on shop items gets the icons of ur hero's basic options (attack hold position defend stop etc). Fix it.

17. Make that Bone Spirit and Mana Break works only at end of animation. At the moment, Bone Spirit works on a unit before the end of animation (before the spirit have reached the unit), same for Mana Break, it works instantly, instead of working when the attack hits the unit. Fix it.

18. I noticed that Tail and Double-Edge can be ranged sometimes. We can do it in maybe 250 or 300 range, it suck it should be always 100. It happens because some of the player using it has lag so the spell is effective 0.5 second after casting when the other hero can be then at 300 range. Please fix it.

19. Since Sweeping Ray is universal, please fix that we cant click on ams/gg/golem/inferno to use it, because we still can use it vs them but we need to click a little near to.

20. Hill's knocking back effect should works vs GG/ams, like does block way rolling stone vs those skills.

21. All creeps should spawn at start, even Ancient Sasqatch and Furbolgs, so we dont have to wait creeps when we creep at level 2, and laners can pull that level 7 and level 10 creeps to towers to get a bonus of experience.

22. Please fix that Knockwave cancels ours actions. It can make us miss a frag because of it. For instance, we aim a nuke on ennemy, he knocks us and action is cancelled so we miss the frag.

23. Ensare and Inner Fire should be third category skill, since its weak compared to a nuke or a aoe.

24. Space Orc attack should be instant like sniper's one, because it looks like it. It can helps for last hits.

25. Please remove that hook stuns for like one second after pulling back to caster, the damage and pull is enough it doesnt need to be stucked for one second like it is atm.

26. Pulverize should works on any ranged hero.

27. Since Beset is the best skill of the game, maybe make it ulti at level 8 so we dont get a rax at level 6 using it vs defenders that can do nothing versus it. Maybe let back that it heals 500 hp then.

28. I noticed a bug. When we use Thunderstorm or Bloodlink, sometimes we dont get gold on last hit while spells is still working vs units. It because unit dies instantly after using that spells on it, fix it so we can get gold in last hits and not spending mana for nothing.

29. Maybe add Clone and one hero only modes so we can get 10 totos (or 10 ts Very Happy), like in Dh 3.5.

30. Make Ice Path and Spring works on graves.

31. Fix the bug that we sometimes get less than 5 nature treants when still using it on many trees.Except of course if we use it on little space of trees like in base.

32. Maybe change name of vamp Tyrannus into Tyranny or even JustinBieber it would be fun Very Happy.

33. Let spiders that are spawned after first kill get same target than the last one. Atm when spiders dies and spawns a new one, it randomly attack another unit/builing when old one was attacking building for instance. The same thing is happenning with little golems that appears after golem dies, they attacks another target. Please fix it.

34. Let that Brilliance aura incon on hero board will show the level. Atm for instance when ennemy has it, we cant know which level it is.

35. Electric grapples doesnt give enough damage. Please fix it. It should do like 300 damage on 700 range walked.

36. In general, except for necronomicon that has been speeded up, we are slowed when already slow summons are moved with hero. I mean summonsare already slow, but it can slow us or even stops it for a moment when we move it. Please fix it.

37. Give us more spiders rings at start, one is not enough.

38. Hippogriph shouldbe changed to agi based hero, since it got a lot of agi points and looks like an agi hero.

39. Encyclopedia of Nature atm has a too long cd, maybe let it down to 3 minutes so every 3 minutes we can spam summons.

36. Let Thief's Hands steals the same ammount of gold at each level, like 40/50/60 because most of the times we get 2 or 3 gold using it. Increase also the damage given. Maybe add 1% that it will steal an item of ennemy, or all his gold. Dont make it works vs allies.

37. Bash should works against GG/Ams/golem/inferno since its passive and not magical.

38. I noticed a bug that happenns also in dh/376. Sometimes when unit has less than 50 hp, it can die just alone, without deing hit by ennemy. Please fix it.

39. Fix that hooks sometimes works vs cadavers.

40. Pandemona sometimes can make our nevers very excited. I remember a game while I cannot hit a tower with beset at all because Panda cyclones were make me avoiding it. I was clikcing like amadman on my mouse and got very angered. Just make it unclikable like hydrant. Only caster should be able to move it selecting it. Please fix it.

41. Make that searing works against ams/gg/golem/inferno and on any melee, because its still weak.

42. Increase the range on healing wave and thunderstorm/bloodlink on second and next hits, because sometimes we use healwave on an hero not so far and wave doesnt get back on us while we need it. Same with ts/link that dont touch targets arounds because of being 100 range too far. It should be fixed.

For all that good ideas and longest post ever on forum, pls make me (JustlnBleber or PiG.Tyranny is u dont like this name) shaman of clan TL again please oh please. I would thanks u enough for this. And dont forget to add an hero that will be named Tyranny or Justin ! Evil or Very Mad

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Vites4ever on Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:13 pm

Tyranny... Plz think before posting ideas, your ideas make TL more and more like footman brasil 1.9 'who can defeat me' hosted by the player 'damnwarrior', for 7 years now. It's a pretty cheat version and totally not balanced.

Let's start...

Tyranny wrote:
2. Make that the mana burn on felhounds needs only one press on button to burn ennemy hero.Atm u need to press it 4 times to burn it all, if possible make that all felhounds burns from first press.


Get skills

Tyranny wrote:5.Make that bottle can be used while being sheeped. I once died because I couldnt use bottle while sheep, its not a spell so we should be able to use it. make bottle also works when we are using Sweeping Ray or Flamethrower.

It's just a silence spell. Get used to it.

Tyranny wrote:17. Make that Bone Spirit and Mana Break works only at end of animation. At the moment, Bone Spirit works on a unit before the end of animation (before the spirit have reached the unit), same for Mana Break, it works instantly, instead of working when the attack hits the unit. Fix it.

Get used to it

Tyranny wrote:18. I noticed that Tail and Double-Edge can be ranged sometimes. We can do it in maybe 250 or 300 range, it suck it should be always 100. It happens because some of the player using it has lag so the spell is effective 0.5 second after casting when the other hero can be then at 300 range. Please fix it.

Tail is like that since the first version of dota. Get used to it.

Tyranny wrote:21. All creeps should spawn at start, even Ancient Sasqatch and Furbolgs, so we dont have to wait creeps when we creep at level 2, and laners can pull that level 7 and level 10 creeps to towers to get a bonus of experience.

Also since the first version of dota. Get used to it, it's dota.

Tyranny wrote:22. Please fix that Knockwave cancels ours actions. It can make us miss a frag because of it. For instance, we aim a nuke on ennemy, he knocks us and action is cancelled so we miss the frag.

It's called knockwave. Not shockwave. It pushes/stuns.

Tyranny wrote:24. Space Orc attack should be instant like sniper's one, because it looks like it. It can helps for last hits.

Let's give all heroes instant hit... It's dota. Get used to it.

Tyranny wrote:26. Pulverize should works on any ranged hero.

It works.

Tyranny wrote:27. Since Beset is the best skill of the game, maybe make it ulti at level 8 so we dont get a rax at level 6 using it vs defenders that can do nothing versus it. Maybe let back that it heals 500 hp then.

It hasnt to be the best skill since you can scout. I can name a lot of better abilities.

Tyranny wrote:33. Let spiders that are spawned after first kill get same target than the last one. Atm when spiders dies and spawns a new one, it randomly attack another unit/builing when old one was attacking building for instance. The same thing is happenning with little golems that appears after golem dies, they attacks another target. Please fix it..

Get skills...

Tyranny wrote:35. Electric grapples doesnt give enough damage. Please fix it. It should do like 300 damage on 700 range walked.

You can rift with it and it does some damage. What you want anymore? 300 damage is pretty imba, better make it instant kill then...

Tyranny wrote:36. In general, except for necronomicon that has been speeded up, we are slowed when already slow summons are moved with hero. I mean summonsare already slow, but it can slow us or even stops it for a moment when we move it. Please fix it.

Get skills... And Tzieph, please remove the faster movementspeed on necrominions


Tyranny wrote:37. Give us more spiders rings at start, one is not enough.

Yeah, let's all get 2 spiderrings at start!.. Maybe fix spiderrings, still way to imbalanced. It should be like 400 instead of 200. (300 ror/sobi + 100 of oldschool rop)

Tyranny wrote:38. I noticed a bug that happenns also in dh/376. Sometimes when unit has less than 50 hp, it can die just alone, without deing hit by ennemy. Please fix it.

Never saw it. Sounds like mines, wraith of nature or thundergod.

Tyranny wrote:40. Pandemona sometimes can make our nevers very excited. I remember a game while I cannot hit a tower with beset at all because Panda cyclones were make me avoiding it. I was clikcing like amadman on my mouse and got very angered. Just make it unclikable like hydrant. Only caster should be able to move it selecting it. Please fix it.

Called skills again.

Tyranny wrote:42. Increase the range on healing wave and thunderstorm/bloodlink on second and next hits, because sometimes we use healwave on an hero not so far and wave doesnt get back on us while we need it. Same with ts/link that dont touch targets arounds because of being 100 range too far. It should be fixed.

I think the range is fine. Or you want to make it like wraith?


As you see im not very positive about your post Tyranny. Sorry.
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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Vites4ever on Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:30 pm

titan got his original stats but when he uses beset or decoy it last only 1/2 of the duration

So people wont pick toto anymore and will go other good hp heroes, that you will have to fix.

lucent - now at night it makes scout owl for 20 secs

Sure, because lucent sucks. It does only 290 damage at night.

entagling roots - 20/35/50 dmg over 5 sec -> 10/20/30 dmg over 10 sec

Way to overpowered... Keep it the same or 15/25/35 over 5 sec. That's allready imba.
300 damage ánd 10 sec is way to imba.
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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  nospoon on Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:32 pm

well, vites is way too negative. tyranny had 1 good idea -
Pandemona. yes, its annoying. should make it alot smaller so it wont block my mouse.

rest of the things you wrote arent that good.

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Admin on Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:58 am

well, i might do one more update with weaker touch of death

i like some ideas tyranny wrote:
- explosive rounds (think about special addition)
- homing missile
- hill knocking amsed heroes
- spring/icepath works on graves it just doesn't show the animation because the model doesn't support it
- clone heroes
- heroes wearing player names
- if you are slowed down with summons just select summons to follow hero and controll hero only
- i check that hook
- searing buff
- reworked bone spirit

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Szotyi on Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:40 am

Maybe rethink some hero balance, since when the game starts most sentinel rushes the waygate. Hippo should be changed with Wisp. Nobody pickes from sentinels right sided heroes or just very rarely.
Dunno when i saw last time someone picked Orc Rider, Rowen, or SR.
+
If possible, there should be countdown at skills selection, at least on draft mode 5-7sec / player. Some ppl take full minutes to decide they need force push or needle and kills this mode. Just random a skill for them if they cant select any and go on.


Adding player names for heroes not a good idea even if it sounds cool for those, who might get their name in the game.

Stat board should show how much time we spent on enemy base pirat maybe bad for the invis+hidden, just an instant idea. Very Happy

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  lazy_boy on Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:23 am

i agree draft or team draft shoud have time limit on selection...like 45 secs max...

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Szotyi on Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:45 pm

reinc does not work if i get killed while im using omnislash.
-just sayin

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Szotyi on Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:32 am

https://redcdn.net/ihimizer/img213/7421/siniper.jpg


After first use of Reinc. my sight distance reduced dramaticly... it never turned back to normal since then. And my sniper became like a melee hero.

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Vites4ever on Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:12 pm

My computer crashed so i couldnt play warcraft anymore. But i dont think i will instal it again since TL becomes more renew every day..

Antibackdoor-mode? Are you kidding me?
And those supercreeps -> renew!
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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  nospoon on Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:28 am

i kinda like river mode, its nice to "kill time" with a few players till another game ends.
but you should open up more space - add the entire mid c- 3 places on sc and the 3 on sent, and allow passing through the ground above the of the river. just a thought.

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Szotyi on Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:06 am

Sprout should make a scout owl as Lucent Beam does at night, since the target hides in the shadows of the trees Smile

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Unmotivated on Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:54 pm

Got one request!

Change back the HP regen at fountain to same levels as 3,76/DH, not even worth destroying two raxes or more.

KTHX Unmotivated !

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Admin on Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:26 am

turn on anticamp..

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Unmotivated on Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:45 am

I would if I could host

Basically every host out there if fixated on having AC turned off even if you ask.
What Im trying to say is, there is way too many lame games nowdays with camping and more camping.

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CCTEE

Post  CCTEE11 on Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:43 pm

Idea for Riskjha mode:
Riskja (horsy) starts middle. It moves towards the enemy base of the team controlling it. When it reaches the enemy base (maybe between the middle raxes or so) it explodes (B00000M!11) leaving enemy base in big ruin.


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Trojan mode

Post  CCTEE111 on Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:46 pm

the horsey has to move faster, its too slow in this version. Maybe make it move faster at 1st (3x the speed now) and 2x speed after 2nd tower, then same speed for last tower to the explode spot.
Also nice adding: marker on the ground for the explode spot.

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Jaha on Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:12 pm

Unmotivated is very correct...so many games have now turned into camp offs and involve very little strategy other than 4/5 camp, all pool dragon/beset/decoy and then counter if the other team are stupid enough to suicide their sieger or 4/5 man. This counter then usually fails as the other team respawns and rinse and repeat...so many games are lasting 35/40 minutes + in these later versions.

Even though you're putting out all these new versions, it's becoming quite stale and was in a better state around 6.3/6.4. I'm not sure why you're bringing out all these new game modes when there is a real problem that needs addressing. People don't want to play these other modes 95% of the time, they just use them (river mode for instance) if they can't fill a game. I think I speak for most of us when I say that we just want a normal game that is as balanced as it can possibly be (which I appreciate must be insanely hard to achieve this)

This was the beauty with 3.76, it's a shame that it's hardly played any more because the heroes/skills were in harmony. I'm not one of these purists who only wants 3.76 because I enjoy playing TL but you can't just keep inflating it and adding more powerful heroes and skills repeatedly without addressing the basic issues.

Unmotivated suggests a possible fix to something that is a serious issue, and your reply is "Turn anticamp on". This isn't an answer as it almost encourages more camping due to the greater importance of protecting the rax.

I don't really know where you're trying to take this map with things such as the addition of that awful hero (the cube) and these random modes. I understand you're trying to breathe new life into the game by introducing new heroes/skills but it seems like you want these inclusions to stand out so you leave them a little overpowered (examples when vamp was introduced/when troll was introduced/TOD/original orb etc)

Getting community suggestions is fine and a good idea, but you need to understand who is making the suggestions and ask the players who understand the game better. This is how DOTA originally improved, they had closed forums with only a certain number able to make suggestions and go through betas. No offence to Tyranny but the majority of his previous suggestions are ridiculous and as you can see they've been disputed by a number of people who can see how bad they are. A lot of his suggestions were made so that the game is easier and requires less skill and players on his level can therefore perform better.

The community gets smaller everyday and it would be a shame to see it die so i'm trying to keep it on track and help the game as a lot of games these days play out the same way and are getting pretty boring.

Lastly, even though I disagree with a number of changes you've made, I appreciate the time and effort you put in to these maps, so don't think i'm solely criticising.

//Edit: Couple of suggestions:

Creeping is far too easy with the removal of mana burn from satyrs, right click affair (Bad suggestion to make game easier from Pierriz...he also suggested removing AMS lol)

Ranged strength heroes are boring...they are always used by players with less skill so they can hide behind them.

Orb was firstly imbalanced, then over time you fixed it and now you've put it back to its first imbalanced state, it's far too powerful. It's a nuke, dispel, slow all in one and can do crazy damage. Your reply before was to "move to the side of it"...this isn't a solution.

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

Post  Admin on Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:36 pm

i recommend to try out swap books/constant skills
play with different players
play rumble . .

i also offer editable version if anyone wants

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Re: TL 6.4 update discussion

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